In this new season, hosts Anna Yeon, Noè Harsel and Zione Walker-Nthenda are each tapping smart, funny and inspiring people who are yes, like us. Then they share the interview with each-other and regroup to unpack. You'll hear from lawyer and refugee advocate Nyadol Nyuon OAM, community builder and storyteller Mariam Issa, Pachinko actor Sohee Park, podcaster Kate Robinson (Being Biracial), speaker and former model Sasha Kutabah Sarago and more.
For this first episode, Noè sat down with comedian . In her stand up shows like and Hoo Am I?, Lizzy discusses her family and her Chinese Malaysian Irish Australian heritage.
When you're a comedian, you try and avoid telling people that you're a comedian.Lizzy Hoo
Lizzy chats with Noè about drawing stories from her family, comedy as catharsis, and growing up in 1980's Brisbane.
It's weird when I think about it now because all my friends in primary school were ‘half somethings’.Lizzy Hoo
LISTEN TO
Lizzy Hoo chats about family, race and comedy
SBS Audio
07/08/202435:20
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Transcript
We would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land we are broadcasting from, the Boonwurrung people of the Kulin Nation, we pay our respects to their Elders past and present. We would also like to acknowledge all Traditional Owners from all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander lands you are listening from.
[music]
Like Us is Anna Yeon, Zione Walker-Nthenda and me Noè Harsel: a Japanese Jewish woman, a Korean woman and a Nigerian-Malawian woman chatting about our relationship with Australia and Australia’s relationship with us.
Noè Hey everyone!
Zione Hello~hello~!
Noè Oh my gosh, welcome back! Season Two. I’m so happy!!
Anna Ta dah~!
Noè So there’s been a few changes…
Zione I know…
Noè Ok, Anna - where are you?
Anna I’m not in Melbourne anymore, that’s for sure.
Noè She’s not
Anna I.am.living…
Zione hahaha
Anna I am living and working in Seoul, Korea!
Noè I mean, congratulations, that’s huge!! And that does mean you’re not with us in the studio.
Zione I know…
Noè Which we are super sad about.
Anna I miss you…so much!!
Noè and Zione We miss you too.
Zione Fam!
Noè So happy that we get to see you regularly and happy that we get to do the recordings with you because that’s how we keep the family together. But it does mean that you’re not here with us; but we have done some fun things, anyway… [in singsong voice] We are changing in format!
Zione Exactly! So that really works too, right? So super excited with our current format which is different from Season One where we are actually bringing in guests. Oh my goodness!
Anna Woohoo!
Noè What we’ve done is that each of us has interviewed people who are like us. We have a bit of a chat before hand.We do the interview. We listen to each other’s interviews and then we get back together and chat about it.
Zione Yes!
Noè We unpack, and we unpack.It’s excellent! So that’s a bit of a deal of how we are doing the new season. We really hope you enjoy it. Stick around for the ride!
[music]
Noè Hey, everyone.
Zione Hi. Good to see you all.
Anna Hello! Hello! And Noè, we have something exciting that you've got up your sleeve?
Noè Well, I was able to speak to Lizzy Hoo!
Zione Ahh the comedian. That's fantastic.
Noè Yeah really great.
Anna I’ve seen her on Instagram.
Noè Yeah, she's super funny.
Zione She is.
Noè So she is a writer. She calls herself a noodle enthusiast, a designer, actor, sports lover, and she also rescues Greyhounds. Obviously you know, she's a stand up comedian, and she's got a special on Prime Video called Hoo Cares?!
Zione Oh that’s fantastic.
Noè Would you believe she only started doing stand up comedy in 2017, and she did it as a way to gain more self confidence.
Zione Wow…
Noè Safe to say that worked out pretty well for her.
Zione Wow, that's amazing. You never get that sense when you see her perform, right?
Noè She's super polished. Her 2019 Stand up was called Hoo Am I? She saw her introduce herself to the world and she discusses her Chinese Malaysian Irish Australian mixed race heritage. And most notably, her one of a kind father who is a premier Brisbane ukulele personality.
All [chuckles]
Zione I think she has a lot of material to work with.
Anna And every time you say ‘who’ in terms of how she titles her comedy program, is it spelled ‘Hoo’ like her last name?
Noè 100%! How clever, how clever, right? She's not slowed down in 2022. Her latest show Hoo Cares?! is a breakout of the Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney Comedy Festivals. So she's also appeared on The Project and The Cook up with Adam Liaw and has been a presenter and contributed for websites such as SBS voices and ABC Life. It was such a great chat.
Zione Fantastic can't wait to hear it.
Noè Okay, let's do it.
[music]
Noè Thanks Lizzy for being here. I’m so excited. I am such a fan!
Lizzy Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me.
Noè It’s great - you’re obviously very funny that goes without saying but you’re really interesting in the context of everything that we love talking about here on Like Us, so this is really exciting. I’m going to ask you I guess a really basic question, but in a way it gets a little bit controversial in so many ways. It's a question I get asked all the time, I'm sure also you get asked this as well; so the question I'm asking everyone who I'm talking to.
So if I were to say to you, where do you come from?
Lizzy Yeah, well, my usual reaction to that question is, oh, I'm, I'm from Brisbane. But, I know what people are asking. But my dad is from Malaysia. He's Chinese and my mum is from Australia. She's from Toowoomba. Yes.
Noè and Lizzy [chuckle]
Noè And do people give you a look when you say that, or is that enough?
Lizzy If I just leave it at Brisbane? Then, yes. Yeah, they'll probably inquire further. But you know what, sometimes I think, you know, you could just say, oh, yeah, I'm from Brisbane. But I was like, I know what you…
Noè I know what you want...
Lizzy I know what you want. So I'm just going to do the full thing. It's like, sometimes when I say my last name, for example, like I always spell it out. Because I know people are gonna ask or like, write down the wrong thing. So it's, I feel like it's like me just spelling it out.
Noè Just makes it easier…
Lizzy Yeah, yep, that's it.
Noè I get that. I remember I was at a shop recently and a woman looked at my, first the shopkeeper looked at, my first name Noè. And she goes, that's a weird name. And another woman, another Asian woman who was at the counter just side-eyed me and I thought, yeah, I feel you. You're with me, aren’t you. You're getting it. It's just really interesting. It's weird. But you know what people are asking, so you give them that extra bit. I hear it.
So how would you… how would you describe what it is you do? If someone says, what do you do for a living? What would you say?
Lizzy Yeah, well, when you're a comedian, you try and avoid telling people that you're a comedian. Like if I'm in an Uber, and someone asks me, what have you been doing tonight? I will not say I've been doing stand up comedy. Not at all!
Noè I think that’s the coolest.
Lizzy I know. But it's just, it's just so many questions. Yeah, no, in this context, fine. But when you're just finished work, and you just want to get home. It's kind of like I just say, I'm a graphic designer.
Noè Okay. That works...
Lizzy Yeah. And sometimes, you know, when you go into the airport, like, oh, where are you off to? It's Iike work - I'm doing work things. And they're like, oh, what do you do for work? And I I just revert to my old job to be honest.
Noè Yeah, love it. Clever. I love it. I love that. But the fact is…
Lizzie …that I'm lying.
Noè The fact remains that, that ain't true. And you are a very funny lady. And race is an entry point into your humour. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about how you, or did you actually, did you decide that was going to happen? Or did it just happen?
Lizzy I think it subconsciously happened, especially when I first started doing comedy. I think it was quite cathartic for me to talk about, you know, my parents and my upbringing, and, you know, race and things that affected me. And I just did it. Like, it wasn't… I wasn't consciously going, I'm going to talk about this. It was just like, I read or heard, you know, “do comedy that is authentic to you and what you care about”. And these are the sort of things that I care about. It's like, naturally, I'm going to talk about it.
Noè How did you know it would be funny?
Lizzy Yeah, well, I know… I was having this conversation yesterday, actually, with someone. Because originally, like, I would say my first 10 minutes of comedy I'd ever done, like the first 10 minutes that I created were just stories that I would say anyway; to friends or, you know, people that I would meet. They were just funny stories about my parents. So I knew that they were funny, inherently. But yeah, I guess from just pub conversations and that sort of thing, I knew that…maybe I'd already tested it, subconsciously. But yeah, I have a very funny family.
Noè So they're a good barometer for...
Lizzy Yeah.
Noè And so these stories that you tell about yourself: do your family, do they buy into it? Do they kind of go, yeah, “That's cool. I'm happy with Lizzie saying…that”?
Lizzy Well, my dad is so keen to be in my comedy like he's a real big showman. He's a show off. He doesn't care, whatever. My mum is a very private person. She's from the country. She's a good Catholic woman. She doesn't want any attention. She's just like flies on the right. If I mentioned mum, it's always in a sort of positive light, I would say.
But yeah, I think they're okay with it. Last year's show, which is out on Amazon at the moment, is very family-heavy. And this year, the show that you saw, I don't mention them at all really. So I've given them the year off. But yeah, it is a fine line. There are certain stories, and I will check with my family like, “Oh, can I? Can I say this? Like, are you happy with this?” There was a story that - about my middle brother - that he wasn't so comfortable with. But I talked him around. I was like, “Come on, bro!”
Noè So do you show him this stuff before you test it out with an audience? Or is it sort of like, kind of [at the] same time, same time?
Lizzy Yeah, I'll probably test it out. And then I say, because in my, the Amazon, the show that's on Amazon, Hoo Cares?! is… I mentioned my grandmother, my dad's mum, and how she died and how she and I mentioned my dad who had cancer at one point was quite a very, yeah, private personal thing. But yeah, that he was okay with it.
Noè That's interesting. I'm glad you mentioned that, because I wanted to ask you about that whole notion of the bearing of the soul. And that you [are] telling those personal stories, and is that difficult? Have you found that cathartic? Or is that sort of something you really think about?
Lizzy Yeah, it is cathartic. It is also that show that I wrote Hoo Cares?! I wrote in lockdown. So it was stories I was drawing on. I was missing my family. That's why I feel like that show came to be. But yeah, it is. It's hard, because some of those subjects are hard. It's like, but I very much try and end on a positive note. Like I don't want to leave the audience feeling down, or anything. Like, my last year's show, it was very much like, the theme was death, basically. Like the inspiration I got was when my dad called me. And he said to me, oh mum has given me a bag of her friend’s recently deceased husband's shoes, and that's like, where I got the inspiration for that show. Because it's like, that is so crazy to be like at that generation you are… that's what you're… that's what you're thinking.
Noè It’s like oh, okay…
Lizzy [chuckles] Yeah, we're doing hand me downs, but like dead people. It's like, can you use these? Yeah, it's just like… And that really just struck a chord with me. And that's sort of what the show was built around. So I don't know. Like, I mean, comedy can be anything. I will…I've got a fairly open minded family.
Noè So do they get it? Like do they understand the what and the why you're doing this for and what you need out of it? I mean, I guess it's different for your siblings who are living similarly to you. As opposed to your parents who are in a different situation.
Noè So I just am curious, do they get why this is important for you on a personal level? Not [as a] career path?
Lizzy I'm not sure to be honest. Like, I think maybe they understand. I'm not really sure. Like, I don't think my mum quite gets it. As she's like a 76 year old white lady from the country. Like, I don't think… she just sees me as her daughter, right? Like she's never seen me as different or anything like that. Even though I'm sure growing up she was definitely very protective of me and like, obviously knew that people would single me out and that sort of thing. But I think in her own like motherly eyes like I'm just her daughter.
Noè Yeah, right.
Lizzy Right? So, but, she does hate the… I have this joke about a tshirt. Have you seen that?
Noè Yeah. I saw that. Yeah. Very, very, very funny.
Lizzy Right?
Noè Yes. Crying funny.
Lizzy She hates that joke.
Noè [Gasps] Oh! Stop. Are you serious? Are you allowed to say…oh, would you say the joke on [this podcast]…so that like we can…
Lizzy Oh, yeah. yeah. So the joke is that, you know, people always ask me where I was from as a kid it happened all the time. So I asked my mum, can I get a shirt made up that says “ my mum’s a white Australian, my dad's Chinese Malaysian. And I'm Lizzy from Brizzy.” And then she says, “yes, I want one too”, because she was this white lady walking around with three Chinese looking kids. And people would ask her, “Oh, where did you get them? Like, was it an easy process?” And she just wanted her own shirt that said, “I fucked a Chinese guy”. And she… I think she likes it up until the last line because she doesn't like swearing.
So that's I think she gets the intent because that it's all true. Like I remember asking mum for that shirt. And she didn't..she didn't want one of her own. But she would… so many people would ask her, “Oh what do your children have in them?” And mum would say - my mum is quite quick witted and she would say “Oh, a bit of vegemite toast and some milk”.
Noè So funny.So funny!
Lizzy She is quite good because like… she has… she's a White lady with a Chinese last name right? She would cop so much like, “Oh, what is what is this? What is your name? You're like speak about weird names” so she, she would get… she was a school teacher too so like she was always…
Noè So she was always Mrs Hoo…
Lizzy Yeah! So she would always come back at people. And I think she… she's also got like White Lady Confidence, right?
Noè Yes, of course. Because this is her town…
Lizzy Yeah…so she had no qualms like in bringing people down or like calling people out.
Noè Love it.
Lizzy Which is quite like, yeah, quite good. I remember like this is a sidetrack story but my, my oldest brother, who's a bit older than me, 11 years older than me, and he was playing rugby at school, and he was very good. And the jeering from the sideline was so racist at one game. Like, really…This is the 80s...like mid 80s. So racist, and my mum was furious.
Noè Oh my god…
Lizzy And she, like, went to that school, to the school on the Monday and just like ripped through them, and…
Noè She’s super powerful.
Lizzy Yeah, like she’s like, you know. But if that was my dad… he wouldn't do that.
Noè But it’s different for him, though.
Lizzy It’s so different.
Noè Because he is Asian. It’s too hard.
Lizzy Yeah, it's too like he didn't, he wouldn't want the push back. Where as in mum, he was like.
Noè Well, she's like, no! This isn’...no, you can't talk that way. And I know who you are. Oh I think that's unbelievable. But it's really like, I think that's also incredible how she still holds you know, if I'm understanding correctly, holds a little bit of that discomfort in that whole…
Lizzy Yeah. Because she wants, she just wants us to be seen as equal. Like, she's just like, No one's… you know, you’re all Australian, you’re all just my kids.
Noè You’re all just made perfect!
Lizzy Yeah!!
Noè …there's nothing different. There’s nothing. You know, it's interesting, that whole notion of - and I'm not saying this as your mother saying this - but we often hold the notion of difference as wrong or difference as something that we shouldn't be so celebratory about. And yet what you're doing, which is what I love so much, is that you celebrate the difference. And the difference is something that you're going to put the spotlight on and say, “This is it. And this is what makes it so good.”
Lizzy Well, that's, like, such a new thing as well. Like, it's only in the last few years that I can talk about it in my show. Where it's like, oh, it's like that whole” re-wiring of thought” it's like, hang on, celebrate the difference is the good thing. The difference is what makes you stand out. Like hone in on that. But that's such… it's such a new thing.
I sort of like, it's like your brains doing a software update from when you're a kid. And you're just some of the formatting is a bit weird, you're like, “I guess we can do this?” But you kind of don't feel comfortable with it?
Noè So tell me about that for you. So for example, right, was that not always the case? Were you not always like, this is me, this is me, I'm proud. Was it, was it a recent thing?
Lizzy No, I feel like, I feel like I've always been quite proud of, you know, where my parents come from… Like, I feel like I've always had a sense of pride with that, for sure. But I feel like as I've gotten older, I've been able to get more in touch with that side of myself. Whereas, you know, growing up in high school, I think, I just maybe I didn't consciously think about it. Or maybe it wasn't such a thing. And I just did my life. But you know, growing up like, oh, you kind of just get in touch with yourself and where you've come from you get more interested in your parents and their stories and that sort of thing. So yeah, I can't say that I wasn't, I wasn't one of those kids that, like, wanted to change my skin colour or wanted to dye my hair blonde. You know, you hear those stories where it's like, I was like, Nah, I love tanning. Like I was like, I can tan, you girls can't… like?
Noè and Lizzy [Laughs]
Noè It’s like, sorry, sunscreen more? We’re good, we’re good.
Lizzy Yeah, exactly. And I remember you know, those days where everyone would bring their different foods to school and stuff like that. And I'd be so embarrassed for some of the white kids because I'm like, “Oh my God, that's what you eat?” I was like I was so sorry…which is so mean! And my dad would turn up with the best noodles and I was like, yeah, that's my dad. My dad's rockin’ the noodle. So I never felt ashamed of that part of me. And I was lucky, in primary school. It's weird when I think about it now because all my friends in primary school were ‘half somethings’.
Noè Wow…
Lizzy Yeah, one was half Austrian and half Italian and half Japanese.
Noè What? Oh…
Lizzy Yes! So like my half Japanese friend would come with the best lunches. And we were always, like, trying to eat her lunches and that sort of thing. But it was weird because we're like two groups in primary school. And that was like me and my friends - the “four ethnics”, I mean, I think there were the three of us then the Austrian girl. And the other group was, like, all white. And I'm like, Oh, what was that? Did that happen? Like… did we…how did that happen? Like isn't that? At the time, we'd never, like, thought of it. Or maybe we did. Because we were just like, “yeah! we're all half somethings”.
Noè Yeah, we're different; we’re cool! And they're all thinking, “Uh, huh. You're cool.”
Noè and Lizzy [chuckle]
Lizzy Yeah. So I don't know. It's hard to say like, you look back on some of this stuff. You're like, Oh, there's a pattern there. Or you see something. But it's really hard to nail down.
Noè Yeah, true, isn't it? Like, how much of that is conscious? Or how much of that is just the way it was at the time? And now here you are. The marvellous you; telling the marvellous stories!
It's so true. I mean, it's incredible. I mean, how it seems so organic for you, the everything that, who you are you embody that in the work that you're telling. And I wonder, then going forward, are you consciously moving out of putting so much of yourself into it? And telling other stories about yourself or I mean, you do just see how it goes?
Lizzy It's sort of what I'm, what I'm thinking and what I'm feeling at the time. And also to... being able to play to a wide audience as well, like, that's, that's something that I think about because I'm in the business of doing comedy as my job, right? So I want to…I want to have a broad appeal.
But I also want to speak about the things that are close to me. So it's a sort of, yeah, it's a bit of a fine line, to be honest. Because I want to speak about things that are close to me. But then I also just want to be able to joke! And like, be observational as like any other comedian can be and I feel like what, isn't there such power and in that; when, you know, a woman of colour can just get on stage and joke about… I don't know…
Noè Everything!
Lizzy [Like about] going to the movies?
Noè Yeah. Like a general boyfriend; the boyfriend doesn't have to be whatever.
Lizzy Yeah, or just something.
Noè Yes like you don't have to represent.
Lizzy Yeah! Which I think is also powerful. There is a great American comic I saw the other night: Sheng Wang. So funny. But he doesn't he never talks about his ethnicity. And he doesn't want to. Like, [he] consciously doesn't. And I'm like, yeah, respect.
Noè It's true. There's something very powerful.
Lizzy Yeah, there's something really powerful about that.
Noè So interesting. Thank you, Lizzie, you've been amazing. Thank you for your time, and for letting me explore this with you.
Lizzy Oh, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
[music]
Noè Alright, guys, how good is Lizzie Hoo?
Zione She's hilarious, she’s hilarious! And I cannot believe the extent to which she mines her family as her subject matter. Really, really interesting to know how she navigates that with her family members, because she talked a little bit about that.
Noè It's interesting, isn't it, how there's that fine line about how much you can talk or use your race, in comedy or anywhere in storytelling? And how you have to be really careful about telling those stories and it doesn't become stereotypical. Or in itself racist. You know what I mean? And she does, she does skate that line…it’s amazing!
Zione So I mean, it's nice. So yeah, absolutely. That’s a real talent. I mean, I think comedians have to be amongst the most intelligent communicators in the world, right? To do that type of very nuanced work. I was also interested in her mother's White Lady Confidence.
Noè I have to say, I loved that.
Anna I’d love talking about that too. That was amazing to hear; just another layer in the mother-daughter relationship, which is already complex for everybody. And we all, we each have our thing, but for a certain quality and attribute that you see in your mother to have that element of race. That's, that's really fascinating, and that… I was super impressed that she was able to name that.
Zione Yeah, true. And I think you pointed it out, Noè in a particular example that she gave for her mother to utilise that confidence. Why it was more appropriate for her mother to do it and not her dad, right? Like, for a person of colour, there are a lot more sanctions. So her mother just took up that space because she wasn't going to cop the same sanctions as her dad. And she did you know, Boss Lady moves, love it.
Noè I found that actually really quite an emotional moment. And actually even re-living it, I found it really emotional that her, that whole thing about her brother being… doing something quintessentially Australian, playing sport. And then having those racist comments on the sideline and having the White parent, the majority parent, being the one who is able to say something, and to confront. I mean, first of all, that's a hard thing to do anyway,
Zione for anybody…
Noè For anybody, right? And for it to be a woman who is doing it, number one.
Zione And in a sports environment
Noè And in a sports environment - that is incredibly gutsy. And, and it's, it's a… I felt that really profoundly as well, because, you know…having been in situations really similar, both as the child where my mother couldn't speak up for that, but nor could my father because he's also an immigrant. He's always you know.. he's a Jewish person. Yeah. And where he's also an immigrant here. It's a very difficult position to have to be totally silenced.
Zione And it's difficult I imagined to be the child to see that happen. And your parents not being able to stand up in the way that you think they should, right? But being able to understand that. Exactly.
Noè It's an incredibly powerful thing to be able to see them when they can stand up. But also what really struck me is that we haven't come that far. We're still seeing racist comments, people of colour on the sports field or anywhere else happening today. And who is standing up? Like there's still people… we're still waiting for people…we're still waiting for. We're still waiting for Lizzie's mum to stand up and say something! And there's so few of those people with that kind of strength, having those comments.
Zione Yeah…yeah…
Noè It's, it's really, it really struck me. Yeah, it really struck me right now…how, how we are bereft of those voices, you know. I found that incredibly, I found that very, very powerful. I also found it really powerful that again, you know, how watching that, you know, for Lizzy. Or what would have been an incredible, amazing moment for her. How it would have been quite a transformative moment…for her mother.
Zione Absolutely.
Noè And also taking that little bit further for her mother… I never really considered how it must be for that majority woman to have culturally and racially different children. And coming around on the streets being questioned about it.
Zione Yeah, I had a friend who had a very similar experience. Her partner's black and every time she would walk in Brighton with her child, people always assumed she adopted the child. And she felt well, my child physically looks like me, even though she's Browner. But can't you see the similarities? But also, how dare you feel so comfortable to even say that even if it was a fact, like you're just meeting me on the street! It's such a personal question to ask somebody about, “Oh, where did you get that child?” Oh, my goodness, awful.
Anna It was really quite affirming to hear from Lizzie how her mother was on board with that T shirt idea, that Lizzie…
Zione Until the final joke, though. Which I understood where her mother was coming from too…
Anna Yeah but like, yeah, it felt the messiness of using your family as material, or your performance, just felt super authentic from, you know, Noè your conversation with Lizzy. Because up to a certain point, they totally agree with you and they feel fine about, you know, their experiences being used on stage. But then there's also a line.
Zione Everybody’s line is different.
Anna Yes. And that delicate balance and kind of checking in with your family to test where that line is. And I'm sure Lizzy, like many other people of colour, kind of artists and whatever artistic form that they have, our family is such a source of inspiration. And they do give us so much material, so…We do tap into that wealth of resources. But then how do you navigate that checking in and making sure the relationship stays good and healthy?
Yeah, I just saw a little bit of a glimpse into that in your conversation with Lizzy, Noè. And I just thought that was really interesting.
Noè As you know, Anna, that is something very personal to me about that whole mining family for story material. And how do you navigate the problems that that is and how often do you need to check in and I guess, I mean, I'm sure that you've probably had a bit of a smile on your face, Anna and when I actually asked do you show them the material before…? And I took a bit of heart when she said, actually no… They see it when I am performing it.
I thought that… there is a lot of courage in that, you know, just to say: “I am saying this and it’s my story and I am telling the story as I see fit”. And there’s something in that about owning the element of the narrative, as you see it. Because as we all know, storytelling is about the perspective. s o your history and the way you’re going to see how someone has done something, said something and the way you’re going to interpret your culture is going to be from your perspective.
Zione But is that because you’ve put out there a general caveat that says exactly what you just said: I’m mining our stories, it’s my perspective, it doesn’t have to align with your reality, so just don’t take offence. So that it might pop up in my book, in my comedy, in my film but just letting you know, it’s my perspective, it doesn’t affect our relationship. It’s just for my art.
Do you just put out a general caveat, so that you are not constantly having to go back all the time and check in. This is kind of what I do. This is how I make my bread.
Noè Do you think it’s [for the] creative practitioners that it’s an implied caveat? Like for example, if you’re writing a song it doesn’t… should it always be assumed that every song is about the partner or, you know what I mean, like… because it’s not. I guess the idea is that as a creative practitioner should it not be just the constant caveat that this is my perspective. And you shouldn’t be having to constantly justifying it.
Zione Yeah I agree. I just think it depends on the maturity of the other people and the relationship; and their understanding of creative practice, and a creative life. You’re source material. If it's from your life, they’re in your life. So they’re part of it.
Noè That’s true. Which is why people don’t like talking to writers.
ALL [chuckle]
Anna You know what I felt listening to Lizzy’s words, in her conversation with Noè, was not only the message but I actually felt the sense of vulnerability when she was talking about mining her family, or her stand up material. And it felt kind of intimate, because until that conversation, I just saw Lizzy as a celebrity on my insta feed. Incredibly polished, incredibly confident and witty, just like, god - what it must be like for someone to be her. You know?
Her projection of herself is, she looks like a superwoman on TV, anyway. I wouldn’t have thought that there would be that kind of vulnerability. But with all creative practice, that is the core. Of course there is. And I just really appreciated how, maybe it’s the fact that she was talking to you Noè, that made it, that enabled bringing that out. To me, now Lizzy is more multidimensional then just a shiny, you know, polished like…celebrity.
Zione Yeah, definitely. I think it’s your [Noè] skills in the interview and that’s how you’re able to humanise her. I’ll just make one more last point if you’ve got time. I also thought it was interesting how she said she never felt the need to change her colour or her hair. You know like, she had that sense of confidence about her physicality and how she presented in the world. And so I was curious about that.
But it was interesting when she said she had friends in school and somehow all of her friends were biracial in Toowoomba. I don’t know how that happens in the 90s or the 80s or whenever that was. And I think when you got that sort of buffer around you of people like you, it helps you to give you that springboard where you’re like “I don't have to question the way I look the way I look. Everybody has their own look and that’s just not an issue I have to navigate.” So I thought that was really really interesting and gratuitous for her to have that experience.
Anna And I was just about to say that Lizzy was talking to someone like her …in Noè. So we’ve established that people are like us and how that can draw out a certain depth of conversation.
Zione Definitely. Well done, well done. Like Us, absolutely.
Noè Thanks guys!
Zione Excellent. Thank you for introducing us to Lizzy.
Thanks for listening to Like Us and SBS Audio Podcast. You can find more episodes at sbs .com .au /likeus and follow us in the SBS Audio app or wherever you get your podcast. Your hosts are me, Noè Harsel, Anna Yeon, Zione Walker-Nthenda. We are produced and engineered by Michael Burrows at Tomato Studios with support from the podcast team at SBS Audio.
